Two questions for German readers

[Drakeborough]

I have two questions for German readers, and I am writing them in English because I don't know German.

1) I read in another thread that in the first German translation of "Scrooge's Second Childhood"(Mickey Maus 1958-46) Scrooge and Grandma are said to be brother and sister. Can someone confirm this? I would like to know which panel of which page says that (or, even better, see an image of it). Is it known if the story was translated by Erika Fuchs or by someone else? Are we sure that there are no earliest German translations in which Scrooge and Grandma were said to be sibilings? And was the sibiling idea used often in German translations of the period?

2) In Germany Grandma Duck's name is Dorette, but which comic first used that name? All I know is that name was already in use at the time (July 1968) of the publication of Donald, der König des Wilden Westens.

[Fortunator23]

I've never heard they were brothers and sisters. On the German heritage of Duckburgh they are even not directly related.

[Mc Duck]

But that's only the version by Don Rosa. Other artists have their own opinions about the relationships.
(Sorry for my bad English.)

[Jano]

But that's only the version by Don Rosa. Other artists have their own opinions about the relationships.

It's not about "artist ideas". U$ and Grandma being siblings is mostly a thing that was used in German and Italian texts every now and then and was probably originally based on a translation error or carelessness.

Don says in his commentary text for "The Invader of Fort Duckburg":

But the fact that I base my interfamilial relationships strictly on Barks' original versions caused problems with European translators and Duck readers. Barks clearly regarded Scrooge and Grandma Duck as being unrelated ... from two different sides of Donald's family. Yet, unbeknownst to me who grew up on American Disney comics, European comics have always told of Scrooge and Grandma being brother and sister. I’m sorry to disrupt that tradition, but that’s just not the way it ever was in American comics. But using Barks' original idea made it tricky, since it means that Grandma Duck is even older than Scrooge, as she is from the previous generation.

[Drakeborough]

It's not about "artist ideas". U$ and Grandma being siblings is mostly a thing that was used in German and Italian texts every now and then and was probably originally based on a translation error or carelessness.

That's correct: U$ and Grandma being siblings is not a different idea, is a wrong idea that contradicts itself (if Scrooge is Donald's uncle and Grandma is Donald's grandmother, how could they be sibilings?). Italian authors realized this, and they stopped portraying them as sibilings after 1999, while Dutch authors still portray them as sibilings (I don't know if German authors still do that or not).

Anyway, the goal of this thread is not to discuss whether it is a good idea or a bad idea to portray them as sibilings. Instead, this thread is for finding out, as an historical curiosity, which is the earliest source that portrayed them as sibilings. I believed the earliest source was this 1960 combination of a poetry (by Guido Martina) + an illustration (by Romano Scarpa):



In the poetry, Scrooge is referred to as her fratello (Italian word for "brother"). So, does it mean the idea originated in 1960? I thought so, but then I saw a message in another thread of this forum which claimed that they had already been portrayed as sibilings two years earlier, in the 1958 German translation of an American story from 1956 ("Scrooge's Second Childhood"). That's why I am asking if someone here has access to that edition (Mickey Maus 1958-46) so that he/she can confirm that they are said to be sibilings there.


As for the other question of the thread: yesterday I said Germans have been calling Grandma "Dorette" since at least July 1968, and today I found out that the name has been used at least two times before that. I am talking about the first German translation of "Ridin' the Rails" by Carl Fallberg and Paul Murry (Mickey Maus 1960-38) and the first German translation of "A Honey of a Hen" by Vic Lockman and Carl Barks (Mickey Maus 1960-39). Are there earlier examples of Grandma being called Dorette? And how was she called in the first German edition (Micky Maus Sonderheft #32, 1955) of this untitled story by Carl Fallberg and Frank McSavage?

[Orwell]

And how was she called in the first German edition (Micky Maus Sonderheft #32, 1955) of this untitled story by Carl Fallberg and Frank McSavage?

Dorothea Duck ("Dörtchen")
It's just a Big German Confusion to complete your confusion.

[Drakeborough]

Dorothea Duck ("Dörtchen")
It's just a Big German Confusion to complete your confusion.

Thanks for the info. By the way, Dörtchen and Dorette sound similar.

[Plattnase]

@Drakeborough:

Das erste Auftreten von Omas Vornamen "Dorette" habe ich nicht näher untersucht. Ich würde aber aus dem Stegreif sagen, daß es die Geschichte "Die tapferen Eisenbahner" (MM 38-40/60) gewesen sein könnte, ein cross over von Micky, Goofy und Oma Duck, in dem es um die "Doretten-Grube" geht - ein Bergwerk, das nach Oma Duck benannt ist.

[Johnny_Hazard]

That's correct: U$ and Grandma being siblings is not a different idea, is a wrong idea that contradicts itself (if Scrooge is Donald's uncle and Grandma is Donald's grandmother, how could they be sibilings?).

Well that's simple to explain: As you know as soon as you've got children you refer to your own parents as grandma and grandpa towards to your own children , because if you would refer to ma and pa (your parents) towards your children...they would think that you're nuts. Simple explanation.

I mean when Donald talks to
Huey, Dewey, and Louie

he titles Grandma Duck as Grandma of his three nephews